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Troll ancestors by Vivus small

Some of the ancestors as depicted by Vivus.

Ancestors are a concept in troll society. They are said toSburb Logo be responsible for contributing a greater proportion of their descendant's genes than the slurry from which troll eggs are produced. As such, ancestors typically serve as role modelsSburb Logo for adolescent trolls; each ancestor/descendant sharing their blood color, signSburb Logo, horns, and other traits. However, due to the nature of troll reproduction, the ancestors have usually been dead for centuries by the time a troll is born. However, this is not always the case, especially for particularly long-lived castes. Due to this, some young trolls believe that they are supposed to find clues about their ancestors, however others dismiss the idea as superstition.Sburb Logo

In Homestuck, the main trolls are shown to frequently mirror the lives and relationships of their ancestors, most of whom were major figures in Alternia's history.

After the Condesce took over Earth she enforced a system of culture and reproduction onto the humans that was similar to that of the trolls. Consequently, Roxy's Mom and Dirk's Bro can be seen as ancestors.

OriginsEdit

Twenty-four trolls (two generations of twelve) were ectobiologically created by Karkat. Hardly any details of the ectobiology are known, including whose paradox ghost imprints were collected and what recombination, if any, was done to them. As such it is unknown which generation is biologically the ancestors and which is biologically the descendants, and which trolls are related beyond the ancestor/descendant pairs.

Although separate individuals with different personalities, several physical similarities between the two generations, namely post-scratch Damara looking practically identicalSburb Logo to Aradia, seem to indicate that dancestor pairs contribute the majority of the genetic material, if not all of it, just like with normal troll reproduction.

After being created, the wigglers were teleported to meteors in the Veil and sent to Alternia via the Reckoning, with one generation becoming the "ancestors" and the other becoming the Hivebent trolls.

However as the meteors went through Skaia's defense portals they were duplicated backwards across the scratch where they arrived on Alternia's pre-scratch iteration, Beforus, and arrived in a different order. As a result, which generation was considered the ancestors and which was considered the descendants were swapped. The Beforan trolls would, like their Alternian counterparts, go on to play Sgrub. However, their session would eventually fail, resulting in them deciding to scratch their session, thus create the session in which they would all be born.

Naming conventionsEdit

Rebels

The Dolorosa, Disciple, Signless, and Ψiioniic.

The ancestors, like the trolls and kids, follow a naming scheme. All except for the Grand Highblood have an eight-letter title. Some of them have their titles changed at some point in their lives, usually to another eight-letter word.

Some of them have had their names revealed in addition to their titles. The narration onceSburb Logo referred to The Handmaid's room as Damara's room, and a conversationSburb Logo between Tavros and Vriska implies that The Summoner's name was Rufioh. This evidence would suggest that all of the ancestors shared the names of their pre-scratch counterparts. Whether this holds true for the pre-scratch ancestors, or the kids' guardians, remains unclear.

There are a few exceptions to the eight-letter pattern, but most are handled by using typing quirks to their advantage. The Ψiioniic's title is spelled with a Ψ (the Greek letter psi) and Sollux's typing quirk to fit the pattern, as psionic is seven letters. E%ecutor Darkleer's title changes to, in Mindfang's words, Expatri8, even though expatriate would be ten letters. Her Imperious Condescension is referred to as the Condesce for short.

Since the primary source for the ancestors' titles is Mindfang's journals, it is possible that she invented nicknames for some of them to force them into this eight-letter schema as part of her quirk; but some of them (such as the Condesce) have been confirmed by external sources.

Terezi, Vriska and Eridan all named their Flarp characters after their ancestors.

Post-scratch ancestorsEdit

For the pre-scratch versions of these ancestors, see pre-scratch trolls.

The HandmaidEdit

Handmaid

Pre-scratch self is the Witch of Time

The Handmaid is the "ancestor" of Aradia Megido, albeit not chronologically so, and the post-scratch incarnation of Damara Megido. It was revealed later in the story that she shares the name of her pre-scratch counterpart.Sburb Logo Whether this is true for all of the ancestors is unclear, but the Summoner was implied by Vriska to be called Rufioh, and Aranea referred to a young Condesce as Peixes. The meteor she was on appeared a little less thanSburb Logo 612 sweeps after the Vast GlubSburb Logo, so her life actually started after Aradia herself was dead, a roundabout paradox that complements Aradia's status as the Maid of Time. Her interference with several events in troll history gave her a reputation as a demoness amongst the trolls (as explainedSburb Logo by Doc Scratch), even the helper of Death itself.

Aradiafelt (2)

The young Handmaid.

Doc Scratch intercepted her meteor and began raising her so that she could be one of Lord English's servants. Under Doc Scratch's tutoring, she became the Handmaid and was released to English. He then gave her a very long lifespan via a curse and sent her back through various points in Alternia's history to serve as a player in major turmoil, such as class warfare and rebellions, in order to prepare the trolls for their Sgrub session.

This all caused her to be feared more than English himself, who rarely interfered directly. She had one last assignment to complete after the destruction of Alternia and the death of the rest of the trolls: recruiting Her Imperious Condescension to serve as her replacement in English's service. Once completed, she will finally be allowed to die.

The Handmaid attempted to escape from this fate while Andrew Hussie distracted Doc Scratch by aggrieving him, but she ended up running right into the waiting gaze of English, who mocks her for trying to flee from a master who is already here.

The Handmaid also has many similarities with the Aradia figure from Charles Leland's 1899 work, Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches. Aradia is the daughter of Diana, the Roman moon goddess, and Lucifer. She is a messianic figure sent down to earth to teach peasants about witchcraft to use against upper classes and against the Roman Catholic Church.

The Handmaid also knows how to use clockwork majykks (appropriate for a Time player), and stirs up class warfare amongst the trolls. Her name may also tie with the Virgin Mary's title as the "handmaid of the Lord".

The black and white buttons on her dress, in tandem with the overall Asian theme surrounding her, may be an intentional reference to the concept of Yin and Yang. Fitting, as her master is an evil cherub who, in childhood, reflected this theme heavily with his "sister".

The SummonerEdit

The Summoner

Pre-scratch self is the Rogue of Breath

The ancestor of Tavros Nitram, and the post-scratch incarnation of Rufioh Nitram. According to Mindfang's journal, he was a commander of an army of beasts and a member of the Cavalreapers. By skill and bravery, he became their leader, then won their undying loyalty by growing or revealing wings much like the god tier trolls have.

His evolution would inspire his troops to follow him in a revolution against the Highbloods. The revolution was eventually crushed, but resulted in the Condesce banishing all adult trolls to space, leaving the planet only inhabited by the young. Given the ongoing gag about Pupa Pan, this is possibly a reference to the fact that Neverland is only inhabited by kids who stay young forever. Rufioh was also roughly based off of the character Rufio from the movie Hook, involving the setting of never land and characters from the story of Peter Pan.

According to the Magic Cue Ball, the Summoner was fated to become Mindfang's matesprit, but was also destined to be the one to kill her. Mindfang assumes that due to his lowblooded status he would not be born for some timeSburb Logo after the last entry in her journal was made. However, given that the ancestors arrived via meteors her speculation may not be indicative at all. He is somewhat similar to Rufio, and much like how the Signless became a myth over the years, his own actions may have inspired the Pupa Pan stories. The Summoner was the only ancestor that had wings, due to his mutation.

The Ψiioniic / The HelmsmanEdit

The Helmsman

Pre-scratch self is the Heir of Doom

The ancestor of Sollux Captor, a follower of the Sufferer, and the post-scratch incarnation of Mituna Captor. He was a psionic of unequaled telekinetic ability, who was inspired by the Sufferer to defy his masters and break out of the slavery typically assigned to his low class, or those with psychic powers.

After the Disciple was spared by the E%ecutor, and the Dolorosa sold into slavery, the Ψiioniic was enlisted in a far worse, if more prestigious serviceSburb Logo: being grafted to the flagship of the Condesce. He was forced to serve as its Helmsman, directing and powering the engine with his psychic abilities as a living battery.

It was during his tenure here that the Condesce apparently grew fond of him, increasing his lifespan with her 'touch' until he finally died as a result of the Vast Glub while traveling back to the troll home planet.

Ψ, "psi", is the 23rd letter of the Greek alphabet, thus making the original pronunciation of his name "the Psionic". A psionic is defined as one possessing psychic powers. Another interpretation is that the Ψ symbol in this ancestor's name actually has something to do with the Condesce, considering the letter resembles a trident, and the same letter is used in the name of Feferi's 2x3dent, Ψdon's Entente. The Ψ symbol also refers to the Condesce's sign, as well as the logo for Betty Crocker, which Jane Crocker is the heiress to.

The Signless / The SuffererEdit

The Sufferer

Pre-scratch self is the Seer of Blood

The ancestor of Karkat Vantas, and the post-scratch incarnation of Kankri Vantas. Like the other ancestors, he was one of the twelve unsuccessful heroes from the original, pre-scratch session. However, unlike the others, he gradually began to remember his previous existence on Beforus, to which Doc Scratch speculates is a side effect of his mutant, candy red blood. The blood aspect symbol is shown distinctly on his lower left side.

Due to his mutation, the Sufferer was not adopted by a Lusus as a grub and was instead taken in by the Dolorosa, who became the first of his inner circle. The Psiioniic and the Disciple were soon to join as well.

Inspired by his visions, he spread word of a culture free from conflict and suppression based on blood color. This eventually resulted in a large scale sectarian revolt that would be crushed by the highbloods. After the revolt, he was captured and killed. Even though any reference to the revolt (including in private journalsSburb Logo) was forbidden, his followers and teachings remained alive in secrecy, referring to him by the numbers 6 and 9 replacing the b and o respectively in sym69ls, as they resembled the cuffs confining him at his execution.

He was never as angry as Karkat until his torture, when his love for his people became an all consuming rage and hate that rang throughout paradox space as the Vast Expletive, his final sermon. In fact, it has been implied that the anger he felt during his final moments lives on in Karkat, with whom he shares the blood mutationSburb Logo. As his name implies, the Signless was not given a symbol like other trolls normally are. It was through his instruments of punishment (shaped like the Cancer sign) that his followers gave him a sign, and a new title: the Sufferer.

Aranea Serket implies that Kankri's ability as the Seer of Blood was not realised until his life as the Sufferer, where he remembered his time on Beforus. This could imply, like Darkleer's void abilities, that the ancestors also retained their pre-scratch titles and abilities. Which would also make the Sufferer a Seer of Blood.

The DiscipleEdit

Disciple

Pre-scratch self is the Mage of Heart

The ancestor of Nepeta Leijon, and the post-scratch incarnation of Meulin Leijon, the Disciple was the Sufferer's most devoted follower. She listened to every vision he retold, every lesson he preached, and faithfully recorded his scripture. Eventually, they became matesprits, although it was said that their relationship was more than that, going beyond the standard set of quadrants entirely. To spread his message throughout the world, they took to the seas in the vessel of legend known as the First Ship, a transparent reference to "shipping".

The Disciple was to be executed along with the Sufferer, but the E%ecutor took pity on her and allowed her to escape. She absconded with the Righteous Leggings, the only remaining evidence of the Sufferer's existence, and spent the rest of her life in caves, recording the Sufferer's teachings on the walls with the blood of slain creatures. This parallels Nepeta's shipping wall. Her dedication was critical to the persistence of his message.

The DolorosaEdit

Dolorosa

Pre-scratch self is the Maid of Space

The ancestor of Kanaya Maryam, and the post-scratch incarnation of Porrim Maryam. She raised the Sufferer to maturity from just a grub due to a chance meeting while she was running an errand. Due to her jade blood, she belonged to a rare class whose only duty was to tend to the mother grub in a cavern. Seeing no other chance for the Sufferer's survival, she abandoned this duty to raise him. In time, she became his first follower, and one of his close circle.

Her role as a mother figure for The Signless is reflected by Kanaya and Porrim towards Karkat and Kankri respectively (more so in Porrim). And her adoption of his views reflects in both Porrim and Kankri taking interest in social justice.

After the Sufferer was executed, the Dolorosa was sold into slavery and spent the rest of her life as property of vicious sea dwellers. It is highly probable that she was the female slave Mindfang took an interest in. If this is true, then she was later assassinated by Dualscar. This mirrors the (admittedly complicated) red interests between Vriska and Kanaya, as well as the fact that Kanaya is later killed (albeit temporarily) by Eridan.

06177

The Dolorosa hissing at John when he "zaps" into the frame.

"Dolorosa" is the Latin word for "grieving", and serves as a traditional attribute of the Virgin Mary (in the full form "mater dolorosa," or "grieving mother"); thus bearing a connection to her (as well as her descendant's) symbol, Virgo.

In twoSburb Logo panelsSburb Logo as well as a flash pageSburb Logo, the Dolorosa's eyes and mouth appear to be glowing with a bright yellow incandescence, suggesting that, like Kanaya and Porrim, she became a rainbow drinker at some point, and in this page's dialogueSburb Logo John mentions that a vampire hissed at him while he was unstuck in canon.

Neophyte RedglareEdit

Redglare

Pre-scratch self is the Knight of Mind

The ancestor of Terezi Pyrope, and the post-scratch incarnation of Latula Pyrope. She was a neophyte legislacerator who was sent to apprehend Mindfang and bring her to justice after the incident with Dualscar. She is said to be quite talented, but still inexperienced, as evidenced by the title "neophyte."

Pyralspite

She eventually captures Mindfang with the aid of her dragon lusus, Pyralspite. Not knowing about the Dragon, Mindfang had understimated her. Mindfang's sensitive vision eightfold is burned out by looking into the dragon's bright eyes, and her arm is severed by Redglare. Unfortunately, Mindfang uses her powers during her trial to turn the spectators' aggression towards Redglare, causing a riot that leaves her hanging from the very noose intended for Mindfang.

Redglare is shown wearing the sign of the Sufferer around her neck, signaling that she was part of that underground movement that supported his ideals after his death. This may be because Redglare supported the idea of equality, and, along with the fact that she was a keeper of justice, can be directly tied to her sign, Libra.

Notably, Pyralspite is the only known ancestor lusus, other than Gl'bgolyb, who is shared by both the Condesce and Feferi. Mindfang noted in her journal that Pyralspite swallowed her lusus whole, but Mindfang's lusus has never been seen or further described in-story.

Marquise Spinneret MindfangEdit

Mindfang

Pre-scratch self is the Sylph of Light

The ancestor of Vriska Serket, and the post-scratch incarnation of Aranea Serket. Mindfang was a pirate and the leader of a notoriously deadly fleet of Gamblignants.

In her youth, her descendant found a journal in an impact crater that detailed much of Mindfang's life, and had clues for hidden treasures, including the Fluorite Octet set of dice and massive piles of treasure. Mindfang was also the namesake for Vriska's Flarp character.

Her name, Spinneret, breaks the ancestors' naming system of using eight letters; the spinneret is the organ from which spiders produce their silk. However, her title, Marquise, preserves the pattern. It is implied that she could have been known in-universe as The Marquise. Her last name, Mindfang, which also preserves the pattern, is an obvious reference to her and Vriska's mind control abilities.

Through her journalSburb Logo, it is revealed that she had a kismesissitude with Orphaner Dualscar, Eridan's ancestor, which may have been Vriska's inspiration for her relationship with Eridan. Mindfang seemed to have a habit of playing redrom games with various trolls, most of them of lower castes, which Dualscar despised and envied. The journal also reveals that Mindfang had a female slave lover, who is implied to have been Kanaya's ancestor, the Dolorosa. This would mirror the red feelings between Kanaya and Vriska that were present at one point.

After hearing that Neophyte Redglare was sent to apprehend her, she thinks of it as little more than a joke. Underestimating the inexperienced Redglare, she is taken by surprise when the Neophyte confronts her together with her dragon lusus, Pyralspite. In the confrontation, Mindfang loses her vision eightfold to Pyralspite's scorching gaze, and Redglare tears off one of her arms, matching the injuries Terezi causes Vriska to suffer. Mindfang is then taken into custody until her trial.

Using her powers of manipulation, Mindfang successfully turns the onlooking crowd ofSburb Logo rust bloods at the trial against Redglare, leaving her only to deal with His Honorable Tyranny to complete her escape. Having slain the beast with Redglare's staff, she met with E%ecutor Darkleer, who created a new robotic arm for her.

In addition to being the original owner of the Fluorite Octet claimed by Vriska, she has also been shown to be the previous owner of the all-knowing cue ball, and had communications with Doc Scratch (who called her his protege) in a manner similar to Vriska. Once she retrieved it from Darkleer's home, she hid it with her journal serving as the map, believing that knowing the future caused her more harm than good, particularly referring to her knowledge about her eventual death at the hands of her future flushed relationship, the Summoner. This might actually be the reason of Vriska's confused black-to-red feelings for Tavros. It is implied that Vriska used a map in the journal to find Darkleer's home and the ball.

Other than the Condesce and the Handmaid, Mindfang has so far had the most influence on the plot. The most obvious examples are the Pop-a-matic Vrillyhoo Hammer created by John from Mindfang's weapon and used to damage the health bar of Jack Noir, her cue ball being used to create Doc Scratch, and the karmic cycle of revenge that began with her and Neophyte Redglare. The last of the three was intentionally reprised by Terezi on several occasions; first when she manipulated Doc Scratch into blowing up the cue ball in Vriska's face, then when she ascended to the highest point of the meteorSburb Logoto confront Vriska, assuming Vriska was responsible for many of the troll murders that had occurred and wanting to bring her to justice. It is likely that Terezi, like Vriska, knows in some way of the exact details of the conflict.

Where Mindfang killed Redglare, Terezi killed Vriska, avenging Redglare and Tavros. Mindfang's less significant influences on the plot include her journal, which she bequeathed to Vriska and may have sent by meteor, and her writing quirk, which Vriska obviously copied from the journal as a way to emulate Mindfang. Said quirk is the only one seen to be shared by a pair of dancestors, matching Aranea's.

Terezi and Latula's quirks aren't a perfect match, with Terezi normally speaking in uppercase while Latula normally speaks in lowercase.

E%ecutor Darkleer / The Expatri8Edit

Darkleer

Pre-scratch self is the Page of Void

The ancestor of Equius Zahhak, and the post-scratch incarnation of Horuss Zahhak. He is skilled in machinism of some kind that is analogous to his descendant's work in robotics. Unlike his descendant, both of Darkleer's horns and teeth are, at least when he is seen, unbroken. Equius's teeth were stated to usually grow back in his introduction pageSburb Logo.

He was tasked with executing the followers of the Sufferer, though he could not bring himself to kill the Disciple. For his failure, he was banished by the Highbloods, and became the Expatri8, as Mindfang's journal calls him.

Mindfang escapes from her trial and seeks out Darkleer for a de8tSburb Logo to be repaid in the form of a prosthetic arm. Mindfang has found that her admiration of Darkleer has vanished over the sweeps, as he continues to mourn the situation involving the Disciple and his banishment. She considers his work to be a good distraction for any grieving that might weigh on his mind.

Darkleer is thought by Mindfang to be surrounded by a Void that conceals him from Doc Scratch's omniscience. She left the cue ball with him so that Doc Scratch would not be able to locate it. This ability is most likely related to his alternate self's role as Page of Void, and descendent's role as the Heir of Void and may provide an explanation for why Vriska was able to keep the Cue Ball hidden from Doc Scratch in turn.

The second part of his name, leer, is a German word and means empty. This references his descendant's and pre-scratch self's Void aspect.

The Grand HighbloodEdit

Highblood

Pre-scratch self is the Prince of Rage

The ancestor of Gamzee Makara and a member of the subjugglators, presumably the leader, and the post-scratch incarnation of Kurloz Makara. Like his descendant, the Grand Highblood was violent and deadly, and belonged to a juggalo-like cult.

The Grand Highblood was in charge of keeping the lower castes in check during his reign, operating much as an enforcer for the Condesce's regime. However, he was known to be capricious and unpredictable, rendering this point moot. It's possible that he was responsible for the fate of the Sufferer and many of his followers. On post-scratch Earth, his role was mirrored by the Juggalo presidency.

After Dualscar's kismesissitude for Mindfang failed, he offered her location to the Highblood. Mindfang wrote in her journal that this plan either would, or already did, fail spectacularly due to the subjugglator's sanguinary nature, resulting in Dualscar's death. Despite this, the Highblood apparently took the threat Mindfang posed seriously, and sent his wild card, Neophyte Redglare, to apprehend her. His descendant mirrors this action by sending Terezi to deal with Vriska. The cause of the Grand Highblood's own death is currently unknown.

The Grand Highblood liked to decorate his walls with the blood of his victims. This gory rainbow included blood of all castes (excluding the Condesce's tyrian purple, mutant candy red, and his own caste's purple), which surely pleased himSburb Logo. This mirrors Gamzee writing messages on walls with the blood of his fellow trolls, and writing messages with his own blood in the style of his fellow trolls.

The Grand Highblood is the only ancestor whose name violates the eight letter naming rule.

Orphaner DualscarEdit

Dualscar

Pre-scratch self is the Bard of Hope

The ancestor of Eridan Ampora, and the post-scratch incarnation of Cronus Ampora. He was Marquise Spinneret Mindfang's kismesis, and the original owner of Ahab's Crosshairs. The collar of his uniform is modeled much like an Imperial Drone's body which all trolls tend to fear.

He was prone to jealousy, despising Mindfang's redrom games with other trolls though she was already his kismesis. One evening Mindfang stole slaves from his hold and when he pursued her, she attempted to force him to watch her as she mind-controlled one of his slaves (The Dolorosa), forcing them to sexually pleasure her. It is written that as he watched he became disgusted and repulsed with her for her deed and left in a revolted fury. Extremely bitter about this display, he rejected her as his kismesis and had the slave assassinated either out of anger and jealousy.

He also placed a bounty even larger than the one she had on Mindfang's head. It is also mentioned that he had a redrom interest in the Condesce, which Mindfang threatened to use as a means to blackmail him. "Orphaner" is likely a reference to Eridan's – and possibly Dualscar's – duty of killing other trolls' lusii in order to feed Gl'bgolyb, leaving them orphaned.

He attempted to inform the Grand Highblood of Mindfang's location, but was killed by the Subjugglator for being unable to tell a decent joke.

Since both Ahab's Crosshairs and the Fluorite Octet were found on the same ship by Eridan and Vriska, it remains a possibility that Mindfang likely stole the weapon before or after his death.

Her Imperious Condescension / The Condesce / The BaronessEdit

Fereriancestor
Main article: The Condesce

Pre-scratch self is the Thief of Life

The Condesce (pronounced /ˈkɒn.dɛs/ kon-dess), is also known by her full title Her Imperious Condescension. She is the ancestor of Feferi Peixes, and the post-scratch incarnation of Meenah Peixes. The Condesce is the present empress of Alternia, and held that position during the lifespans of the trolls' ancestors as well as the troll players. Her name is the eight-letter shortening of the word "condescension", which highlights her possession of said quality.

Pre-scratch ancestorsEdit

For the post-scratch versions of these ancestors, see post-scratch trolls.

Very little is known about the Beforan ancestors as only a single one is mentioned. However as Kankri Vantas does not appear to have a sign, it may mean his ancestor, pre-scratch Karkat, did nothing to result in the creation of a sign for descent.

Meenah's ancestor (pre-scratch Feferi)Edit

Post-scratch self is the Witch of Life

Being mentioned a few times by both Meenah and Aranea, but not making any actual appearance, it is implied that as the ruling fuchsiablood on Beforus, she was the reason behind the softer meaning of 'culling', other than the lack of Doc Scratch's influence.

TimelineEdit

Disclaimer: This timeline is not to scale and only depicts extremely approximate timelines for the ancestors and points in their life in relation to each other, as many events surrounding the ancestors took place over unknown periods of time; for example, Mindfang and Dualscar are both shown on the table as arriving on their Reckoning meteors around the same time, however the differing lifespans of different blood castes could easily have allowed Dualscar to have been born centuries before Mindfang but this does not exclude the possibility that Mindfang may have instead been older than Dualscar. The positioning and scaling of the events is also restricted by the limitations of the coding used to construct the timeline.

Numerous details are not elaborated on in the story; for example, it is not known how or when the Grand Highblood died, other than that it was some time before Hivebent, nor is it known when the limeblood genocide occurred, other than being before the lives of the A2 Sgrub players. Such gaps are left blank.

Handmaid Summoner Ψiioniic Sufferer Disciple Dolorosa Redglare Mindfang Darkleer Highblood Dualscar Condesce
Time travel
in the
service
of Lord
English
Born*
Born* Born* Born* Born* Born*
Born* Born* Born* Raises Sufferer Born*
Follower of Sufferer Preaching Follower and lover of Sufferer Follower of Sufferer
Enlisted as Helmsman Executed Spared by Darkleer Sold into slavery Exiled
Serves as Helmsman Seclusion and eventual death Killed by Dualscar Captures Mindfang Captured and maimed by Redglare Seclusion and eventual death Kills Dualscar Killed by Highblood
Hanged by lowbloods Escapes trial Eventual death
Born*
Relationship with Mindfang Relationship with Summoner
Kills Mindfang Killed by Summoner
Revolt fails Bans adult trolls from Alternia
H I V E B E N T
Dies in the Vast Glub 612 sweep long return trip to Alternia
Born*
Raised by Doc Scratch
Young self enters service of English

Older self killed by Condesce
Arrives at Alternia, confronted by and kills older iteration of the Handmaid
Enters kids' universe
*Arrived by meteors delivered by the Reckoning

Connections between ancestors and descendantsEdit

Many of the ancestors' interactions are inverted by the troll players. Dualscar killed the slave, who was likely the Dolorosa, the Summoner killed Mindfang, Dualscar was possibly killed on the orders of Her Imperious Condescension with the Grand Highblood as her proxy, and Mindfang arranged Redglare's death. Accordingly, Eridan temporarily kills Kanaya, who then permanently kills him in return (both imitating and inverting the ancestors' case), Vriska kills Tavros, Eridan kills Feferi, and Terezi kills Vriska. This likely has to do with the troll kids finishing what the ancestors startedSburb Logo (i.e. getting revenge).

Other events are paralleled. Redglare's dragon, Pyralspite, disabled Mindfang's vision eightfold, while Terezi informed Doc Scratch of Vriska's possession of the Magic Cue Ball, causing him to explode it in her face, and disabling her vision eightfold. However while Mindfang subsequently killed Redglare, Vriska merely blinded Terezi in retaliation.

A more complicated addition to the above two points occurs when Tavros prepares to revive his complicated possible romantic interest Vriska with a kiss, when she was almost dead. She prevents him from doing this, however, and then exhorts him to kill her. Meanwhile, the Summoner is known to have killed Mindfang, who was his matesprit.

Many of the troll kids' titles bestowed by Sgrub fit with their ancestors' roles in history, while their "dancestors" have titles that fit in with other parts of these roles:

  • Aradia is the Maid of Time, corresponding directly to the time-travelling Handmaid, while Damara's title as the Witch of Time reflects the cruelty and violence she stirred up at Lord English's behest.
  • Tavros is the Page of Breath, relating his (supposed) wind abilities and rocket chair to the Summoner's wing mutation and flight abilities; Rufioh's title as the Rogue of Breath may be a pun on his "going rogue".
  • Sollux is the Mage of Doom, corresponding with the Ψiioniic being a powerful mage of unequaled telekinetic ability and his ill fate; Mituna, as the Heir of Doom, may tie into how his fate was passed down from another universe. 
  • Karkat is the Knight of Blood, connecting his and the Sufferer's unique candy-red blood mutation; Kankri's role as the Seer reflects their abilities to see each other's alternate lives, as well as the Sufferer's status as a visionary. 
  • Nepeta is the Rogue of Heart, and like the Disciple engages in unconventional behavior for the sake of the people she loves; Meulin's title as the Mage of Heart may reflect the Disciple's recording of the Sufferer's various lessons and the story of his life.
  • Kanaya is the Sylph of Space, endowing her with the role of a healer, while Porrim is the Maid of Space, leaving her with breeding duties. The Dolorosa, in her nourishing maternal role, mirrors both.
  • Terezi is the Seer of Mind, and could relate to Redglare's name and her dragon lusus Pyralspite's burning glare in the same way that Latula, the Knight of Mind, could relate to using her wits (and therefore her mind) to catch Mindfang.
  • Vriska, the Thief of Light, or fortune, is the descendant of Mindfang, a pirate and Gamblignant; Aranea, as the Sylph of Light, could relate to her commissioning a new arm from Darkleer to distract him from his crippling depression.
  • Equius, the Heir of Void, inherited Darkleer's void powers; Horuss, the Page of Void, reflects how Darkleer was almost a warrior but failed to live up to his duty.
  • Gamzee's fulfilment of his role as Bard of Rage also recognizes his hatchright as a high subjugglator; Kurloz's role as the Prince of Rage reflects how, in another life, he would rise to become their leader.
  • Eridan, the Prince of Hope, is the descendant of Dualscar, who was presumably also nobility; Cronus, as the Bard, reflected his alternate self's status as a wandering pirate.
  • Feferi is the Witch of Life, corresponding directly to the life-extending Batterwitch; as the Thief of Life, Meenah reflects how the Batterwitch could steal lives through her lusus or her agents.

Both Sollux and the Helmsman were killed simultaneously as a result of the Vast Glub, fitting their duality theme.

Biblical allusionsEdit

Several ancestors, as well as Doc Scratch's interference in the events concerning them, can be interpreted as direct references to characters from the biblical tales involving Jesus Christ. Hussie has commented extensively on this topic on his Formspring.

  • The tale of the Sufferer teaching peacefully, his martyrdom, and the adoption of the means of his torture as a symbol by his cult are clear references to Jesus himself. When Terezi said W3 H4V3 TH3 B3ST TROLL J3GUSSburb Logo, she may have been talking about the Sufferer, which would parallel her ancestor's portrayal as a follower of the Sufferer. He could also be a reference to Moses, who was adopted by Pharaoh's daughter, his mission to save his people in slavery, and the reference between him and his brother is an allegory to Karkat and Gamzee.
  • The Ψiioniic could reference to the apostle Peter; both were good friends of their respective messiahs, and were later punished in a way that they would suffer greatly. In reference to Moses, he represents Moses' best friend, brother, and staunch supporter, Aaron.
  • The Disciple may parallel Mark the Evangelist, whose symbol was a lion. They both were faithful disciples and recorded their masters' teachings. The beloved disciple is another candidate (and is theorized to have been Mark the Evangelist). He was present at Jesus' crucifixion, and The Book of John was written based on his written testimony. She could also be a counterpart of Mary Magdalene, who was a disciple of Jesus and theorized by some scholars to have been his lover or wife. In reference to Moses, the Disciple is a parallel to Tzipporah, Moses' wife. She was considered "wild", from a tribe scorned by the Egyptians.
  • The Dolorosa, as the adoptive mother of the Christ-like Sufferer, can be easily paralleled with the Virgin Mary. Mater Dolorosa is a famous statue of the Bible's Mary, in an attitude of grief as she beholds the crucifixion of her son Jesus, and her visible heart is pierced with a sword to display such despair. Mary's birth is also celebrated during the Virgo period, on September 8. Kanaya Maryam's surname is drawn from an Arabic term for the Virgin Mary. In reference to Moses, she is an allegory to both Pharaoh's daughter, and Moses' birth mother.
  • The E%ecutor parallels with Pontius Pilate, the Roman who was tasked to kill Jesus Christ, as well as the semi-apocryphal figure Longinus, the soldier who wounded Jesus during his crucifixion, as Darkleer shot the Sufferer with an arrow during his flogging.
  • Complacent Beforus (the A1 session) was transformed into to conflict-wrought Alternia (the A2 session), through the scratch and bargain with Echidna. This is yet another Biblical parallel in which Beforus represents the Garden of Eden, Alternia represents the "real world", the bargain with Echidna represents the manipulation of the serpent, and the scratch represents the consumption of the fruit from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This further cements the role of The Signless as a Jesus-like prophet.

Mythological allusionsEdit

Several ancestors, as well as Doc Scratch's interference in the events concerning them, can be interpreted as direct references to characters from the mythological tales involving ancient Greek/Roman gods, in particular the story of Prometheus. Prometheus was a peaceful titan, the only one that sided with Zeus against Cronus. In the battle against Cronus, Hundred Handers were released from Cronus's hold in the Underworld, and helped overthrow him with their awesome strength. Prometheus is generally considered wise and represents aforethought. He is the only one that knew who the mother of Zeus' son, the one destined by prophecy to overthrow him, was. For loving men, and for knowing this knowledge, he was sentenced to agonizing torture by being bound to a rock, and an eagle eating his liver over and over, since gods can regenerate. Not a word was spoken as he was tortured and eventually Chiron, a centaur, took his place and died for him. Zeus accepted Chiron's sacrifice and freed Prometheus from this torture. Another telling says instead of Chiron being sacrificed, Heracles simply slew the eagle and freed Prometheus.

There's a Greek tragedy called Prometheus Bound. In the play, Prometheus is chained to a mountain, much like how the Sufferer is shown chained to a high place. He's credited with playing a key role in Zeus coming into power and the chaining is considered a harsh betrayal. In the story Zeus wanted to obliterate all of mankind, but Prometheus somehow stopped him. It consists mainly of speeches and is the first story in a trilogy called Prometheia.

Alternian could be a nuance of Athenian. Athenians are known to be the only ones to have any religious temple to Prometheus. They originally made a torch race in honor of Prometheus that started and ended at his altar and had regular celebrations on the calendar for him.

  • The tale of the Sufferer (Prometheus): a peaceful man that also represents rebellion, was very wise, and had a prophecy that eventually someone would rise to overthrow this form of rule, and was severely tortured by the Condesce (Zeus). The Sufferer is shot where the liver would be located, and the eagle is said to have eaten Prometheus's liver once every day. Prometheus has been referred to in ancient and modern stories as the sufferer. Prometheus's name means 'forethought', possibly referenced by the Sufferer's role as a seer by foretelling future events.
  • Karkat at one point says to John that MY HATE IS THE LIFEBLOOD THAT PULSES THROUGH THE VEINS OF YOUR UNIVERSE. IT IS MY GIFT TO YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR THAT. YOU UNGRATEFUL PIECE OF SHIT. Since Karkat's the descendant of the Sufferer (Prometheus), this can be taken as an allusion to Prometheus, since he's credited with creating the human race from clay.
  • The tale of the Condesce (Zeus): a wrathful being more powerful than all other ancestors (Gods), controlling lightning, that tortured the Sufferer. Also, she's like Zeus because she wishes to overthrow Lord English (Kronos).
  • The tale of the Expatri8 (Chiron the Centaur), a centaur that took pity on (instead of the Sufferer/Prometheus) the Disciple, and freed her. However, instead of death in the mythological tale, he is outcast by the Condesce (Zeus).
  • The tale of the Expatri8 (Hephaestus), a god known for being lame and was a metalworker making weapons for all the gods. By this allusion it could also be implied he created the weapons of the other ancestors. Mindfang has stated the Expatri8 built a new arm for her. Both Horus and Equius, his descendants, are gifted with advanced metalwork and robotics, and Hephaestus is known for building automatons. In the account of Hephaestus falling from Heaven twice, both times were due to his lameness--an allusion to the Expatri8 becoming known as the Expatri8.
  • The tale of the Grand High Blood (Dionysus), a god known for his wine and ritual madness in addition to religious ecstasy and festivals. These can be taken as allusions to sopor slime, the Grand High Blood's fits of madness, the religiousness of the Grand High Blood, and the Dark Carnival. Dionysus interestingly was at one point a beloved pupil of the centaur Chiron.
  • Caliborn, despite not being an ancestor, also fits this allegory. Caliborn (Kronos) is a universal ruler and destroyer, and like most titans, is considered a brutish but weak-minded ruler, and the Condesce (Zeus) is plotting, with the help of others, to overthrow him and become ruler. This allegory by genealogy would make Caliborn and Calliope's parents metaphors for Uranus and Gaia.
  • The Horrorterrors, also despite not being an ancestor, fit this allegory. The Horrorterrors (the Hundred-Handed, they have fifty heads and one hundred hands) are powerful but horror-inducing-to-merely-look-at creatures, having many tentacles moving about their forms, but (supposedly) mean well.


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